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from United States
said:why didn't Batir mention,the money and arms Dahlan 's gang received from the CIA, Egypt and Jordan.
How come you never mention the crimes of Dahlan's gang against Hamas for the last 4 years.
Over the sudden Batir is concerned about Palestinians lives,isn't that ironic Batir??
The question ,Batir,who created this mayhem in the first place?
from United States
said:أين كنت يابتير وأين أحتجاجتك عندما كانت ولا تزال أسرئيل تقتل الفلصطينين عن جمب وطرف بجميع أنواع الاسلحه الفتاكة؟؟؟ لماذا الأن تصلط الضؤ علي ما يحصل؟؟بين عصابت دحلان وحماس؟؟وكئن كل هذا القتل أت من فراغ http://www.palestine-info.info/ar/Default.aspx
from United States
said:Hamas has leadership,a goal an ideology and funding,fatah has neither leadership,nor a goal,a vision or money,fatah coruption,dahlan,abass,and the rest of them.
from United States
said:Your post should be ,"how easily they kill us".
from Jordan
said:Yeslam tommak
Very well said Batir. This is exactly how I feel!
It is so bad that we have created a culture where we think that only killing can solve our problems!
Now the weapons that we ignorantly thought would save us from our enemeies, are turn to our own chests!
As you said, there is always a justification!
STUPID
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni Al Hurr: it is obvious that you refuse the admit to the reality that we are killing each other for power.
Hamede, you are right and the ordinary palestinians are paying the price.
Batir,
Take a look at his latest article, his readers are calling the looting "ghana2em"!!
from United States
said: Batir, violence is not an Arab or Muslim phenomena, yes there is killing and violence ,but this is not something new.you alaways evade the facts and the root cause of all this violence,
Hamas won the election decisively ,but the reactionary forces within the Palestinians political elites such as Dalan and Mahmoud Abbas,along with Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan conspired and collaborated with Bush and Company and Israel to make sure Hamas would not be able to govern.
Back on the question of violence ,I just want to take you back to 80 years ago Batir, Remember ,WWI and WWII, actuality ,i don't like to call them that or use the that term that the world was at war, the world has nothing to do with this whole sale violence and terrorism, yes terrorism,the Europeans and the Japanese slaughtered each others,over 75 million of them were slaughtered in very short time and very gruesome
Stalin,in Russia had killed 20 million Russian within 15 years span.
I brought those examples, just to prove to you that violence is not an Arab invention ...
شوف يا اردني, مع اني مرات بحب استفزك بس يعلم الله الله اني بموت و بحب كل اردني ان كان حر ولا مش حر..
يعني اللي صاير هسا انو المتطرفين من الاسلاميين اصواتهم عليت كثير و صارو يقررو مين مسلم و مين كاف. طبعا الاسباب اللي مكنتهم انهم يصيرو هيك كثيرة, بس مش هون مشكلتنا انو هسا كيف بدنا نحمي بلدنا اللي انا متاكد انك بتحبو زيي اذا مش اكثر كمان..يعني مع كل اللي قاعد بصير حولينا والله الواحد صار يدعي ربو ليل نهار انو الله يستر علينا و على اهلنا..
from United States
said:
يا أخ مهند,ألاردن بعز علي وعندي أهل و أقارب و أصدقاءوانني أتمني كل الخيروالعزلهذه البلاد ،ولكن بنفس الوقت يجب علينا التمعن والتفكير بطريقه عقلاانيه والابتعاد عن التحيز عن ما يجري من كوارث سياسيه واقتصاديه لبلدنا
لايمكن في أى حال من ألاحوال فصل أو أذا جازا التعبيرأبعاد ألاردن عن محيطها العربي والاسلامي
يا أخ مهند،عندما نبدا في الكلام عن التطرف،يجب أن نسأل أنفسنا،كيف وصلنا الي هذا الوضع المزري والماساوي،انا قدقلت رائي في هذا الموضوع وأعتقد بئنك أطلعت علي ما كتبته في مدونة نسيم طراونه وعلي ما يجري من أحداث وكيف وصلنا الي ما عليه
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni: I have never claimed that violence is an Arab or Muslim invention. I am just stating the current conditions that we easily resort to violence to settle our differences. Yes the Europeans have slaughtered each other but then reached a common understanding after they got rid off all extremist ideologies (Nazi, fascims, communism) and adopted democracy. This is of course what we need to do now by getting rid of radical Islamism and extreme nationalism before the violence will stop.
Regarding Hamas, I do agree that they were faced with a blockade from Arab and International forces, but on the other hand Hamas did not provide any political vision that can be promoted internationally, and as you know "governing" a country and people is something very different from Friday mosque speeches praising resistance.
اردني, الاردن دولة محدودة الموارد و الامكانيات وتحميلنا وزر كل القضايا العربية و الاسلامية شي غير مقدور عليه ضمن المعطيات الحالية و الفرقة العربية..من كتاباتك ارى ان هواك احمر ولكن كل العالم الان يتجه الى الاقتصاد الحر حتى الصين و روسيا لذا علينا اللحاق بركب العالم لكي لا نزداد تخلفا و لكن يجب علينا ان نحاول قدر الامكان ان نوازن بين حاجات المجتمع و متطلبات العولمة لاننا كاردن نحن وحدنا في هذا العالم حيث لاتنفع لا علاقات اخوة ولا مايحزنون..
مع كل احترامي و تقديري لكل اراءك التي اتفق و اختلف معها, مشكلتنا الرئيسية الان هي التطرف الديني الذي لم يسبق له مثيل..
from United States
said: نعم هناك تطرف وتزمت ديني في كل مكان وعبر العصور،هناك تطرف ديني في الهند واليابان وأسرائيل وحتي في الدول الغربيه،،هناك تطرف ونزعه دينيه حتي في الولايات المتحده,هل تدكر تفجيرات أوكلوهما سيتي ومن كان ورأء هذه الجريمه،كان الجندي المارينز تمثي مكفي Timothy Mcveigh ،هذا ليس بشئ الجديد ولكن في المقابل هناك عده وسائل وطرق يمكن الحيلوله من تفشي هذه الظاهره بطرق غير قمعيه ومنها الكثير ما أستعملت في أيجاد حلول جوهريه بدون أستعمال القتل والتعديب
أنضر ما يحصل في العراق، أمريكا بكل قوتها العسكريه عاجزه عن كبح جماح هذهاجماعات المتطرفه،والجواب والحل لهذاالتطرف هواأنهاء الاحتلال البغيظ وماترتب عليه من عمليه سياسيه مطحكه ومحزنه في أنن واحد
we just need the US and the zionists to get off our backs.
- in Palestine, it's the US and jews who aborted the unity government and kept pressuring and arming Fatah gangsters to subvert Palestinian unity.
- In Lebanon, it's the US and Arab dictators who kept pressuring and rewarding the sunni/druz sects to exclude the Shiites and prevented a national unity government and gave the jews a green light to invade Lebanon .
- in Iraq, suicide attacks between Shiites and Sunnias were unheard of before the Americans and Mosad entered.
- In Sudan, where the US covets the vast reserves of oil and uranium, they funded and destabilized Darfur as a step towards giving it independence or autonomy so they can reward the Americans with oil exploration rights, and kick the Chinese out.
I can go on and on..
But if you still can't see America's grotesquely satanic role in spreading hate and destruction LIVE on tv day and night. And if you cant see that there are some Arab despots who are willing to play catalysts for these ethnic and sectarian conflagrations in return for getting some cash and protection, then you have selective reasoning.
from Jordan
said:Farid let me elaborate more on your argument
In Palestine the Hamas government did not present one paper for the EU to state its political position. From day one Hamas was told either to recognize Israel or to face sanctions. They do not want to recognize Israel which is their right, but they took the whole Palestinian people as hostages to their no-action policy.
In Lebanon its the shiite Nabeeh Barri who is stopping the political process by refusing to hold the Parliuament and its is the pro-Syria gangs that are causing damage and violence in Lebanon to stop Hariri probe.
In Sudan it was the Janjaweed supported by the Sudanese government that terrorised the Africans in a fight over resources between cultivators and nomads. Hundreds of thousands of peopel were killed and millions displaced before any international action was done.
In Iraq it is the sunnis that are blowing themselves in shiite mosques and the shiites killing the sunnis on the identity.
If it was Israel and the USA behind this, then we are STUPID enough to deserve all that is happening since we do the actual dirty work, and not the Americans and Israelis.
By the way, what about the Israeli factor in the Algerian massacres, Moroccan bombings and Indonesia sectarian violence?
Open your eyes to the truth and don't get blinded by the simple and attractive conspiracy theory.
from United States
said:Batir,,,Your info is completely wrong about Hamas and you have lots of confusion ,I don't think you can write about this subject with clarity because you are not aware of what's going on,I advise to start reading books and not the Jordan times or Alrai
from United States
said:The PLO recognized Israel in 1974,what happened since then Batir???
It is well know fact that Israel does not want any peace with Palestinians.
The only way out is resistance by all means necessary.
بدوب الثلج وراح يبين الي تجتي
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni I am not talking here about resistance but about killing each other under the slogans of armed resistance. Obviously you cannot see the difference.
from United States
said: Batir ,you fit the old classic orientalist, Zionist love people like,all this killing and occupation around you, are the "results" of Arabs and Muslims according to your twisted lgic,I have not seen you criticize the Israeli and American government for their crimes ,I just can't believe what you write ,every negative thing happen in the ME is contributed to the Arab and Muslim.
But you will never adher to the argument that ,Arab dictators and their draconian roles with the help of The US and Israel are part responsible for this mayhem.
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni Al Hurr as you know there are thousands of heros like yourself who are writing about the American and Israeli crimes each and every single minute and attributing all our problems to the global awesome conspiracy against our pure societies. I am making the tough task of pointing the fingers to the problems that we make by ourselves to be courageous also in self criticism. You know, the easiest thing to do is to attack Israel and the USA each day. It does not cost anything and brings high popularity. I prefere to be the one writing about our oiwn miseries amd that puts me in troubles always.
from United States
said:بتير،،،والله أنك ضايع،ويا حوينه علي هيك شباب
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni does your last comment mean you ran out of arguments and started the personal attacks again? However, I have to say it took you this time longer than the usual time of surrendering your argument and turning to personal attacks. You are on the right way and keep up the good work.
from United Kingdom
said:Batir,
The loved the way you argued. Specially how you pushed al urdni il 7ur to the limit of his tolerance until he indeed started personal attacks. It might have been physical attacks if this was not the cyber space !
I totally agree that we have dehumanized ourselves with our own hands. There is no light in the end of the tunnel , and all signs tell of worse things to come. It is more important than ever that all Jordanians/Palestinians , Arabs and Muslims who refuse the murders committed by Islamic terror gangs to stand up and unite firmly against this new tyranny. In that stance though we SHOULD NOT side with our classic secular dictators who are the true root of this problem. We need something not short of a total cultural revolution to reexamine our whole set of values and our understanding of the world around us.
The mission of the destructive forces is much easier than the those who want to build. What we build in a generation they are willing to destroy in a second , your sons and daughters will have no mercy from their bombs. We should act now before it’s too late.
from United States
said:Batir ans Ziad,,,Keep lying to yourselves and you are not convincing any body but those Arab Zionist marines ,and yes Zaid history is not going to forgive you and your likes.
Long live Palestinian Resistance ,Long live Iraqi Resistance ,and Down with the traitors , puppets and dictators
from United States
said:"Al Urduni Al Hurr as you know there are thousands of heros like yourself who are writing about the American and Israeli crimes each and every single minute and attributing all our problems to the global awesome conspiracy against our pure societies""Batir
أليس ما كتبته يعتبر مسخره ومهزله يا سيد الضمقراطيه وحقوق ألانسان،بتير وردان أنت بدئت في التجريح الشخصي ولست أنا
أسمحلي أتكلم عن شخصيتي،،أنا لا أوئامن في نضريه"من ضربك علي وجهك ألايمن فديرا له ألايسر،سوف أعملك كماتعملني ،لا أكثر ولا أقل.
والشاطر يفهم
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni Al Hurr I think you can read my name in Arabic very well and it is childish of you to continue mocking my name with the way you write in Arabic. I think you have provided nothing but shallow slogans and personal attacks in your last few comments and I think I am done with arguing with you now. Anything more is just a waste of my, your and the reader's time.
from United States
said:
لماذا هذا الغضب يا بتير،،"من بيته من زجاج لا يرمي بلحجاره علي بيوت الناس العين بلعين وسن بسن والبذاء أضلم
from Jordan
said:My house is solid and I have never mocked you or made personal accusations to you. If you learn the ethics of dialogue you are welcome back to my blog, otherwise all your comments will be deleted.
from United Kingdom
said:الأردني الحر: اراك تبعث تبعث براسائلك من الغرب الكافر باستعال تكنولوجيا
الغرب الكافر. والله هذه قمه النفاق. عندمااقرأ تعليقاتك احس بعصور اوروبا المظلمة و جاهلية العرب الأولى . عاى اي حال السيد باتر بيته حجر مثل هال العالم و سمعته طيبة. يا ريت كل الناس زيو.
from United States
said: Zaid,,,since when batir hired you as a lawyer???
Ziad ,,let me tell you about myself,Iam atheist who does not believe of what you believe and lets leave at that.
I did not started that he did ,if you just can read between the line,you will know what I mean,if you mock me ,expect the same from me.
وزي ما بحكي المثل السائد،،،ما عندي يا ما أرحاميني
from United States
said:listen Batir,,you can do anything you want,and if you want delete my comments is fine with me too,i could care less.
from United States
said: "الأردني الحر: اراك تبعث تبعث براسائلك من الغرب الكافر باستعال تكنولوجيا
الغرب الكافر. والله هذه قمه النفاق. عندمااقرأ تعليقاتك احس بعصور اوروبا المظلمة و جاهلية العرب الأولى"
you know Ziad ,you don't deserve this name, this name for Arabs who are proud of themselves and their heritage
Let me give lesson in history since you information is based on classic orientalism and the White man version of history of Arabs
Iam obligated again to shed light on the achievement of Arabs and Muslims in advancing human civilisation ,and maybe somebody will take notice and learn.
First without the Arab numerals you would not be able to to solve the simplest equation ,remember Europe and their Dark and savage history when they were using Roman numerals,thay didn't take anywhere,so they had to adopt Arabs numerals in order to solve complicated equation.
Second,,,Do you know anything about Ibn Sena,the greatest surgeon who was the first to preform cesarean section,his books on the subject is taught up till now in Europe
Third, Do you know that first library in the world was built in Baghdad
forth ,The father of calculus and algebra was by the name of Jabber Ibn Haiyan and who was the greatest mathematician of his time. and I would say would his discoveries you would not be able to build a calculator let alone a computer.
this is few examples of what you have called iresponsibltly ""جاهلية العرب الأولى ""
So before you open your mouth ,I advise to do a research on the subject matter,because you are not treating yourself fairly.
And finally,,if you think that by mocking the Arabs and Muslim,the White man is going to give you respect,then,I would say ,you are living in delusional and denial state of affairs without even recognize it.
from Jordan
said:Al Urduni I know that 5th grade history lesson before you were even born. This is another reason of my anger with the current Muslim affairs. If we had Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Baghdad library and all that remarkable history why do we agree to let Bin laden, Zarqawi, Zawaheri, Muqtada sadr, Harith Dhari and Aby Qutada lead our thinking today? History should be a tool that we use to bring back the great days of reasoning and science and not the bombings and killings.
I can lecture you for ages about Arab and Islamic history so do not get too smart about it.
from United States
said:First,,, From the picture ,you look a lot younger tan me , so batir, no you didn't know before I was born, because Iam years older than you.
second,,why you keep putting words in my mouth???,did I ever say I support those people that you mentioned ,the answer is no ,i don't even believe in their ideology because Iam an atheist and don't even believe in any religion. So Batir ,It was a good try on your behalf to lump me with those wackos
from United Arab Emirates
said:Batir,
I would like to really have a civil dicussion with you, I always see you pointing towards our societies for what has befallen us, and that admirable, honestly, we definatly have our issues, and it does take alot of courage to criticize yourself, oursleves. However I see that you never blame the source of evil in the region, namely, political, social and economic,injustice, human rights abuses, lack of free speech, the right to live in safety and dignity and the right to self determination, and no one is in gross violation of all these prinicples than the israelis are, no one has stooped as low as that cancerous state against its own citizens as well as the occupied subjects. I know you support the Palestinian cause and I know you recoginze their suffering, but throwing blame on the victim is not revolutionary or cool, even though many people are trying to convince us that it is. The victim here is the Arab , in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, and anyone who denies the conspirocy theory really is not looking close enough, external hands are in play here, and you are talking about powerful influential hands, toying with shattered semi-societies under years of occupation, embargos, and civil wars rendering them incapable of facing these external pressures by much more formidable players. Yes what happened in Gaza is unforgivable and must be struck down, but ddenying the fact that external players (on both sides of the ball) have had alot to do with it is just denying the facts.
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You want to throw up visit asabeel news paper..
And regaridng abu ghneimeh, I think you should be smarter than that, the title of his blog is "rockets", it is obvious he is one of those people who loves to smell the blood of the infidels.. Did you hear about the 7 IAF members taken into custody because they are trying to create a militia, did you read what meshael said where he admitted smuggling weapons into jordan?
This is just pathetic, and what kills me more is that the IAF is complaining about human right in prisons!!AHHHHHHH!!